First, Maybe Last, Interview

clears throat, looks directly at you like someone who was just asked to give a toast at a wedding they forgot was today

Oh. Right. Yeah. Hi.

small wave

I'm Beth. I'm not the author. I'm not the pen name. I'm just the person who has been in the background of all of this long enough that it would be weird to introduce me now, except here we are.

I edit. Mostly Kira's stuff, about two thirds of the catalog at this point, which sounds impressive until you realize some of those were very short and also one of them I technically read with one eye closed. I do some of Cody's books too, when he decides I've earned it, which is maybe half, and I try to be grateful for that in a completely normal way.

I also keep the website from falling apart. I check the dashboard more than anyone asked me to. I know where everything lives and what breaks if you breathe on it wrong.

Kira is my best friend. That part came first. The editing came after.

small pause

My husband Lawrence is not here today. He's not really part of this world yet. That's a whole other thing.

looks down at notepad, looks back up

So. That's me. Beth. Center chair. Cold coffee. Opinions I mostly keep to myself.

Shall we?

looks up from notepad, glances toward Kira's desk

Okay, before we even START I need to address the candle situation, because that is the third one this week, Kira, and this room smells like a Bath and Body Works.

Kira says something

I KNOW you like it. I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm saying I walked in here yesterday and had an emotional response to a scent and I was not prepared for that.

shifts in chair, looks at Cody

Cody has seventeen tabs open. I'm not going to count them but I know I'm right.

back to Kira

Okay. OKAY. I have actual questions. Professional questions. I wrote them down and everything, which you know I don't always do, so you should feel honored.

flips notepad open, pen comes out from behind ear

And before you say anything about the last book I edited, I stand by every note I gave you. Every single one. The scene on page forty-two needed work and you KNOW it needed work.

Kira is already making a face

Don't make that face. You made that face the last time I was right too.

settles back, grins

looks up from notepad and points pen at Cody

This was YOUR idea. I want that on record. I have it written down right here. "Cody's idea." Underlined.

looks at Kira

Which means when this goes sideways, and it will go sideways, I want you to remember that I showed up with prepared questions and good intentions and that is genuinely all I can control.

clears throat

Okay. Here is how this works. Ten questions total. Kira picked two she wanted asked. Cody picked two he wanted asked, which I'm already a little nervous about. I picked three, which are the reasonable ones, obviously. And then there are three questions from the AI system Christian uses, which Cody thought was hilarious and I think is chaotic, but nobody asked me.

glances at Cody

So three of these questions were written by a robot. A very smart robot. But still.

back to notepad

Both of you answer every question. That's the rule. Kira, you don't get to just smile and redirect. Cody, you don't get to answer in a way that is technically an answer but actually isn't.

looks between them

I've edited enough of your books to know exactly how both of you do that.

Okay. Are we ready? You've both promised to behave. Great. Wonderful. I'm writing that down.

writes it down

looks at Kira

You'll keep him in line?

Kira says something reassuring

Mmhm. Sure. Very comforting, thank you.

takes a breath, flips to the first question, reads it, looks up at Cody with a completely flat expression for just a second

Of course your first question is this one.

looks between them

Okay. Question one. From Cody.

reads it out

Cody: My question, and we'll both answer, what is your favorite couple in a story? You can mention a second favorite.

looks down at notepad, writes "Q1 - Cody - favorite couple," looks back up

Okay, that's actually a good question. I'm a little surprised. Don't tell him I said that.

looks at Kira

Kira, you go first since it's mostly your catalog we're raiding here. Favorite couple. Go.

Kira: I'll be honest, Cody told me this was the first question, and I already told him it's a tie, so I get to pick two couples because I wrote the books.

Cody: That's not really what we said, but fine.

Kira: So first, Ben and Beth from Something Like Gravity.

Cody: I saw that one coming. She loves that book.

Kira: They are so sweet. And there isn't even a sex scene until the very end.

Cody: Spoilers. I guess it's a little late for that.

Kira: Shush. Second, because I have two favorites, Bobbie Lynn and Robyn from Untethered.

Cody: I'm not sure that counts. I'm not saying why, spoilers, but...

Kira: It counts, Cody. They are a couple. Not the main couple, but a couple.

Beth looks at Cody, pen hovering, waits

Cody: She makes more money than me, so I guess it counts.

sets pen down

Okay. I have to say something about the Ben and Beth situation, because I read that book before I was even doing any of this, and I loved it, and I did not connect my own name to it until just this second, sitting in this room, and that is a lot to process in public.

looks at Kira

You know that's one of my favorites. You KNOW that. And you never once said, "Oh by the way Beth, there's a character in here with your name who is lovely and sweet and part of one of the best slow-burn setups I've ever written."

Kira is doing the face

I'm not upset. I'm just saying it would have been information I could have used.

picks pen back up, writes something, stops

And Bobbie Lynn and Robyn.

looks up

I read Untethered. I know exactly what Cody is not saying and why, and I'm also not going to say it, but I will say that Kira is absolutely right, they count, and honestly they might be my favorite part of that entire book.

looks at Cody

Your turn. Favorite couple. From anything. And yes, you have to have one.

Cody: Okay, so I have two. First is Lila and Kris from Knots and Stories. That's one of my favorite Kira books. I love the way the relationship starts, they're both artists, Lila gets braver as it goes, and she's such a mess internally. She just makes for a great character.

Beth: And the second?

Cody: One of mine. Wren and Jesse from The Spa Guy, the Candle Girl and the Forever Fair.

Kira: I love that story. That's my favorite book Cody's written.

Beth: And why Jesse and Wren?

Cody: Because Wren is so weird. She's just bizarre and Jesse just goes with it. The book explains why, but I love that mechanic.

Kira: I want to point out that I'm the model for Wren on the cover. That's an ongoing argument Cody and I have.

Cody: No comment. Touchy subject.

looks at the cover, looks at Kira, looks back at the cover

I'm not getting into the cover situation. I have been in this room long enough to know which arguments I observe from a safe distance with my coffee.

picks pen back up

Question two. This one is from Kira.

Kira: gets very excited, nearly knocks something off her desk Not even close. The Tiny God of War scene from Forever Home. It might be my favorite thing I've ever written.

Beth: You'll need to explain it for people who haven't read it.

Kira: So Madi, the female lead, is totally wound up and super tiny. Written that way on purpose. She's like four foot ten, red hair, described as a rage badger. Completely pissed at the world. She gets fed up with Cal, the male lead, who just keeps trying to contain her, change her. I won't give everything away, but Madi snaps. Badly. And Cal is running for his life. Like, she does try to kill him. She probably wouldn't have. But to be fair, she was a little drugged and could see the color purple at the time.

Cody: It's a really good book. That scene would make my top five easily.

Beth: I have to say that book might be my favorite. Partially for that scene, but it just has one moment after another that...

stops, shakes head, composes herself

Okay. Cody. Favorite scene.

Cody: Mine might not be close. It's the scene where Mittens emerges from the freezer in The Undeniable Truth of Universal Orgasms.

Beth's pen stops moving

Beth: You're going to need to explain that.

Cody: Man, how do you even describe it. So Rachel and Crystal, the two female leads, have discovered they're into each other. Todd, our lovable idiot male lead, is chasing after Crystal. So it's already a love triangle. They go into an ice cream shop and Holly, one of Todd's exes, gets involved. It's a great scene up to that point, but then Mittens, Holly's girlfriend, maybe sister...

Kira: quietly It's a whole thing.

Cody: ...emerges from the ice cream freezer. Like the wampa from Star Wars. And wants to settle an old score with Rachel and Todd. I love it because there are five characters all interacting in this completely ridiculous way.

Beth sets her pen down and looks at Cody for a long moment

I edited that book.

pause

I sat with that scene for two hours and I still don't fully know how to describe what happens in it, and you just said it out loud in a room like it was a normal thing to say.

looks at Kira

You wrote a woman who lives in a freezer. You wrote that on purpose and handed it to me and watched me edit it and never once said "hey Beth, heads up."

looks back at Cody

A rage badger and a woman from a freezer. Those are your favorite scenes in this entire catalog.

picks pen back up

I love this job so much.

looks down at notepad, finds the AI questions section, reads it, looks up

Okay. This one is from the AI, which Cody thought was funny to include, and I have now decided I also think is funny, because it is genuinely the most straightforward question on this entire list and somehow that makes it the most dangerous one in this room.

looks between them

Top three favorite books or stories. Either catalog, both catalogs, doesn't matter.

looks at Kira

And before you say it, yes you can have three and a half. No you cannot have five.

looks at Cody

Actual titles. Not concepts. Not vibes. Titles.

pen ready

Kira, you go first.

Kira: Oh man. There's a lot. I'm going to forget something. I need more time.

Beth: Nope. Answer.

Kira: Okay. Untethered. That's a top three, no question. And Cody's story with the turtles.

Cody: Curtis the Tortoise?

Kira: No, the one with the animal parade and the hedgehog and the turtles.

Cody: Where the Quiet Leads.

Kira: Yes. I love that story. And... My Mom's Unhinged Hot Girl Era. That book was so much fun to write. The fake boyfriends, arguing with the fake real boyfriends. Just so much fun.

looks up from notepad

Okay. Two Kira books and one Cody story, which I think says something about how Kira feels about Cody's writing that she won't say directly.

looks at Kira

Where the Quiet Leads has turtles and a hedgehog and an animal parade and somehow that's the wholesome one on this list, sitting right next to a book called My Mom's Unhinged Hot Girl Era.

looks at Cody

Your turn. Top three. And if one of them is the freezer book, I need you to know I will not be surprised.

Cody: My favorite story between the two catalogs is one of mine.

Kira makes a face. The face. Beth recognizes it immediately.

Beth: I know that book. It's been his favorite since the day he finished it.

Cody: TOLEY According to 348#.

Beth: Have I read that one?

Cody: You did. It's about an artist discovering what her relationship with art really is. It has the serving table, named as art. And the trash can is art.

Beth: Right. It used to be called Needs More Green. Which is also a very Cody title that is impossible to sell.

Cody: laughs Yeah, that's an ongoing thing.

Beth: Okay, and the other two?

Cody: The Bunkhouse Season. Kira's book. Great book, great characters, great scenes. And The Color Beneath the Story.

Kira: You cannot pick that book.

Cody: I can. I did.

Beth: What is it about that book?

Kira: I'm not saying. Cody knows why.

Cody: I do, and I'm not saying either.

Beth: Any reason you want to tell us about it at all?

Cody: Well. The scene where Kira, that's the character's name, can't fix her own lunch. I'll leave it at that.

looks at Kira

Your female leads. Almost every single one of them. Smart, capable, funny, usually a little chaotic. And they get RIGHT there. Right to the edge of the thing they actually want. And then they find seventeen reasons why it probably won't work and they should maybe just go home.

leans forward slightly

Is that a character type you keep coming back to on purpose? Or is that just...

gestures broadly at the entire catalog

All of them.

looks at Cody

And you answer it too, because you have at least three female characters in your own stories who do the exact same thing and I noticed and I'm bringing it up now.

sits back, pen ready

Kira, you go first.

Kira: Hmm. Well, I guess I know that's a thing. And it's a relatable thing for me. But I think the reason it keeps coming up is it gives the story a relatable moment, like an "uh oh, this may not work" moment. So I guess it's kind of all of them. Or most of them.

Cody: Kira needs a moment where it could go wrong but it usually doesn't. Kira has to feel like her characters, and Kira hates feeling bad. So the story usually turns and ends well for everyone involved.

Beth: And yours don't?

Cody: Well, the question wasn't about me. But okay. Yeah. I like bad endings sometimes. Some characters just deserve to suffer.

Cody laughs

Beth stares at him for a moment

See, that is the difference between your catalogs in one sentence. Kira's women almost talk themselves out of happiness and then don't. Cody's characters sometimes just don't make it, and he finds that funny.

looks at Kira

And you two share an office.

looks back at notepad

Also I want to note that Cody just accidentally answered a question about his own books while claiming the question wasn't about him. Which is very on brand and I'm writing it down.

looks down at notepad

Okay. Whose question is this.

checks list

This is an AI question. Of course it is. The robot knows exactly what it's doing.

looks at Kira, who is already lighting up

Kira. Wait. Let Cody go first, because if I let you start we will be here for forty minutes and I have three more questions on this list.

looks at Cody

You go first. Supporting animal characters. Two or three. And Mittens does not count as an animal.

small pause

Mittens is a person who lives in a freezer. That's a different category entirely.

Cody: Okay, two come to mind immediately. Actually I know my three. First, Pug from The Bunkhouse Season. Pig. That's all I'm saying. He's great. Second, Yummly from Knots and Stories. A cat that doesn't move right, hardly says anything, and is the best character in the story.

Kira: I know what the third one is.

Cody: Goldie from Kendle Bot Sucks. One of my stories.

Kira: Oh, I forgot about Goldie. I love Goldie. That's not who I thought you were going to pick though.

Beth: Goldie. That's the Tamagotchi character, right?

Cody: Sort of. She lives in a watch. That's all I'm saying.

Beth writes it down, decides not to ask further

Kira: Okay, my two and one that's really weird but I love him. Brewster from Forever Home. A horse. The scene where Brewster is chewing on Madi's hair. I love that scene.

Beth: The dead-not-dead hamster from Untethered. Freddy.

Kira: Right. Freddy the hamster.

Beth: I named him before you did just now and I want credit for that.

Kira: And this one I don't remember the name, but it's an otter from Cody's book about the aquarium breaking. Like an Alice in Wonderland story.

Cody: The Aquarium Broke and So Did Time.

Beth: Another title that's impossible to sell.

Cody: Shush. The otter's name was Ollie.

Kira: I love Ollie the Otter. He's like a major character in that book. He's like an otter on crack.

Beth looks up from notepad

Okay so we have a pig named Pug, a broken cat, a goldfish who lives in a watch, a hair-eating horse, a hamster of ambiguous mortality, and an otter on crack.

looks between them

Your catalogs are something else. I mean that as a compliment.

looks down at notepad, finds her question, looks back up

Okay. This one is mine. And I'm asking it because I have edited enough of these books to know there is always something underneath. A detail, a choice, a thing that happened in the writing that never made it to the back cover description and probably should have.

looks between them

Something readers wouldn't know but should. About any book. Either catalog.

looks at Kira

And I already know you have approximately eleven answers so pick one. Maybe two. And Cody, you actually have to think about this one because I know you know something.

leans back, pen ready

Kira. Go.

Kira: You always start with me. Okay. Hmm. I know one. Becoming Emily was three books before it was combined into one. The books weren't related, they just kept floating around unfinished until I smooshed them together. And the characters Hazel and Mark, the supporting couple in the book, preexisted Becoming Emily and have their own short story that I don't think has been released yet, right Cody? It's called Hazel and Mark, I think.

Cody: It's called Hazel and Mark now, but it was The Foreman's Reward before that. Actually released on Amazon years ago under that title. That's a good story. That particular book had a lot of rewrites. And it was a script before all of that.

Beth has stopped writing and is just looking at them

So Becoming Emily is actually three separate unfinished books that got smooshed together, contains a supporting couple who have their own entire separate story, that story has had at least two different titles, was previously available on a major retailer under a completely different name, and started its life as a script.

looks down at notepad

And the cover just says Becoming Emily like none of that happened.

looks at Kira

You smooshed three books together and it worked. I edited that book. It worked. That is genuinely insane.

looks at Cody

Your turn. What don't readers know but should.

stops mid-write and looks up

Okay, what is happening over there. You have been giggling and looking at Cody for the last two minutes and I need to know if I should be concerned before he starts talking.

 Kira: Because I know what he's going to say. It's embarrassing.

Cody: You don't know what I'll say.

they look at each other for a moment

Cody: I'm going with the fact that Wren, in The Spa Guy and the Candle Girl, is the base for the character Robyn in Untethered. Kira's favorite book.

Kira: Awww. You're being nice.

Cody: I'm always nice.

Beth puts her pen down slowly and looks between them

looks at Kira

looks at Cody

looks at the bulletin board

looks back at her notepad

So Kira's favorite book contains a character built from a character in her favorite Cody book. And Cody just admitted that publicly in what I can only describe as the most quietly sweet thing I have heard in this room today.

picks pen back up

I'm going to keep what I think is actually going on to myself.

writes something down, covers it with her hand

Next question.

looks down at notepad, finds the question, looks up

Okay. This one is also mine. And I'm asking it because I have read enough of this catalog to know that some of these premises should not work on paper. At all. And then you open the book and somehow they completely do, and I want to know how that happens from the inside.

looks at Kira

A concept that surprised even you when it worked. A premise you weren't sure about that ended up being one of your strongest books.

looks at Cody

And I'm starting with Cody this time before Kira complains.

looks back at Cody

Go.

Cody: Well, I write some weird stuff...

Beth: Yes you do. It's hard to edit.

Cody: True. But I'll go with one of Kira's books. The Manifestation of Jessa Wynn.

looks up from notepad

Actually, I want to say I recently edited that book. And Cody is being generous calling it tough to write because it was genuinely one of the harder edits I've done.

looks at Kira

You're writing three relationships simultaneously where one of them is technically not a person, and you have to make the reader care about all three of them equally. And then the ending, which I will not describe, requires everything that came before it to land perfectly or the whole thing falls apart.

pause

It lands perfectly.

clears throat, looks back at notepad

It was still hard to edit. I'm just saying.

looks at Kira

Same question. Your turn. A premise you weren't sure about that ended up being one of your strongest.

Kira: Hmm. Well, one comes to mind. One of the older books, written about eight years ago. Under the Wrong Star. It's about a lovable girl who is an astrologist living with an astronomist. She's trying to correlate the mysteries of the universe with scientific tools and astronomy.

Cody: laughs I should have said that one.

Kira: Just the conversations are so fun, and I love the couple in that book.

Beth sits back and grins

Okay, so an astrologist and an astronomist living together is a premise that writes itself, and somehow I feel like that's exactly why it shouldn't work and exactly why it does.

looks at Cody

You're laughing because the argument potential alone is extraordinary.

looks at Kira

Eight years ago. Is that one of the books I haven't gotten to yet or one of the ones you gave me the look about?

Kira answers

Beth nods slowly

Right. Okay. I'm going to find that book.

writes something on the notepad, underlines it

Under the Wrong Star. Astrologist. Astronomist. Eight years old and apparently should have been obvious to everyone in this room before today.

looks up

Next question. This one is from Cody.

puts pen down and looks directly at the camera, then remembers there is no camera

Okay, so I should mention, since we're being transparent, I haven't read everything these two have written. My husband is also an author but we haven't gotten to that part of the story yet.

Cody: Not yet. Soon.

Beth: Right. So. I have plenty of books to read in my own life is what I'm saying. But the relevant thing here is that Kira gave me a list. A specific list. Of books I should absolutely not read.

Kira giggling

Beth: Because I'm not really into the heavy erotic content. I know. I know how that sounds sitting in this particular room.

looks at Kira

Do you remember what's on the list?

Kira still giggling

Beth: I remember about five of them. I know the Outdoor Series books are on there. Shelterlight and Take Me Hiking specifically. I remember those two because the covers look completely innocent.

looks at the room

They look like travel books. Shelterlight looks like it could be a nature photography collection. Take Me Hiking has what I assume is a very nice trail on it.

pause

I'm not opening those books, am I, Kira.

finds the question on the notepad, looks up with a small smile

Okay. This one is mine and I've been waiting for it.

looks at Kira

Your endings always leave something open. Not unresolved. Just open. Like the story is still breathing after the last page. The reader gets to imagine what comes next.

looks at Cody

Yours tend to close completely. Sometimes with a bow. Sometimes with a door slamming. Sometimes with a character making a choice that is final in a way that is either deeply satisfying or genuinely upsetting depending on the day.

looks between them

Do you two ever fight about that?

pen ready

looks at Kira first

And I'm asking Kira first because Cody's face already told me his answer and I want Kira's version before he gets to frame it.

Kira: Oh my god, Cody is such a pain in the ass. He always wants some sort of drama, like a tidal wave or a meteor to hit the story and kill off a character.

Cody: I do not. I just think...

Kira: He does. And I don't like endings that cause anxiety. It doesn't mean they all have to be happy endings, but I like to set them up. I hate feeling anxiety at the end of a story. The reader just spent all that time with you and you kick their legs out from under them. I don't like that.

Cody: laughing I don't try to kill the characters. I just...

Kira: You do.

Cody: Fine.

Beth looks between them

Okay, I think we answered that question.

Cody: I think we did.

Beth: Does Kira ever get involved in your stories, Cody?

Cody: Not really, to be honest. She reads all of them, she has comments, but she doesn't get involved when I'm writing them.

Kira: Because I'm a perfect wife.

Cody: She is.

Beth looks up from notepad

I should note for the record there was an eye roll in there from Cody. Subtle. But present. I saw it and I'm documenting it.

looks back down at notepad

Last question. This one is Cody's, and I already love it because Kira is going to have an answer and Cody is going to have a different answer and those two answers are going to be very far apart.

looks at Kira

Character most like Kira. In either catalog. You go first.

Kira: Oh god. I know two in my catalog but Cody uses me in some of his stories too. Okay, two come to mind. Vesper Atroscatini from My Mom's Unhinged Hot Girl Era. I can't really run from that one. She's basically me.

Cody: Vesper has a fake boyfriend she argues with and talks to herself all the time. So yeah. Totally Kira.

Kira throws a paper ball at Cody

Kira: And Lorna Dantini from Last Exit to the Man I Thought I Was Over.

Cody: Last Exit, An Offramp to the Guy I Swore I Was Over. You were close.

Kira: Whatever.

Beth looks up

I'm just going to note that both of those characters have very Italian last names. Atroscatini. Dantini.

looks at Kira

You just noticed that didn't you.

Kira: I don't know why I give the characters like me Italian last names. I'm not that Italian.

Beth stares at her for a moment

You're a little Italian.

looks at Cody

Okay. Same question. Which character is most like Kira? And you mentioned you use her in some of yours, so I want to hear that too.

Cody: Those two are probably the best examples. But one from my catalog. Mandy from Captain Thrustblade and the Maiden. Pretty much a Kira clone.

Kira: I forgot about that book. Such a good book. I do want a pirate of my own.

Beth: You should explain that comment.

Kira: The book is about a girl who just doesn't know what she wants in a man and meets a pirate and learns that what she really wants is a pirate.

Beth puts pen down

Okay, I've edited that book, so I know exactly what it's about, and yes that is the story, and also yes it is one of my favorites.

picks pen back up

looks at Cody

Mandy is a Kira clone.

looks at Kira

You want a pirate.

looks at Cody

Does Cody have any comment about the pirate situation?

small pause

Actually don't answer that.

looks down at notepad, looks back up

Okay, that's ten questions. We did it. Nobody got hurt. Mostly.

looks at Cody

You behaved. Relatively speaking. The freezer thing was a choice but I've decided to respect it.

looks at Kira, who is already doing something at her desk

Kira, what are you doing.

Kira: Nothing.

Beth: You're lighting another candle.

Kira: The other one burned down.

Beth: It has been forty-five minutes.

Kira: I burn through them fast.

Beth: I know you burn through them fast. I can smell it from my CAR when I pull up.

Kira laughs

Beth looks between them

I want to say this was actually genuinely fun, and I have four pages of notes, which is three more than I expected, and one of them is just me writing "freezer" with a question mark and staring at it.

stands up, grabs cold coffee, looks between them

Same time next week? Because apparently this is a thing now. Cody made it a thing.

Cody: I thought it would be fun.

Beth looks at Kira

He thought it would be fun.

Kira: He's not wrong though.

Beth looks at her notes, looks at the candle, looks at the bulletin board

No. He's not wrong.

quietly, mostly to herself

Don't tell him I said that.